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Uff da. This a clinic on deconstruction of an argument. The libertarian in our neighborhood is also the municipal judge, so go figure.

The Den Mother

Wow. You have a lot to say, but it's all based on your remarkable lack even the most basic understanding of libertarianism. What you describe is anarchism, not libertarianism. Libertarianism is based on the idea that government is people banding together to do something for the community that either 1) people can't do individually, 2) non-public institutions can't do, or 3) non-government entities can't do as effectively. A corollary is keeping government functions as local as possible. I look forward to your corrected and re-written article after you have learned something.


Not all liberals, conservatives and libertarians have black and white ideas. Why people describe Libertarians as being 100% libertarian views is a prejudice premise. I personally am an environmenatlist, atheist,against killing your own kid and a libertarian. There needs to be a strong third party that stands up for people's rights while keeping the other two parties on check.

Lance Mannion

The Den Mother, can I call you The? What you're expecting is what every libertarian I've ever had to listen to go on and on about themselves expects, for me to "learn", against all evidence, to accept your self-romanticizing and self-flattering image of yourselves. But the whole first part of my post is based on that image. So, in what ways are you like that? In what way do you exemplify that? How's that house coming?

Lance Mannion

Jeremy, the keeping the two parties in check thing would carry more weight if so many of you didn't vote Republican.


Interesting self-description of Libertariansm by Den Mother there. It's a nice softening of the idea, but in my experience -- and I've interacted with many, many self-described Libertarians -- they never, ever, ever admit the existence of a single thing that actually really truly does fall into any or all of those three categories (with the possible exception of national defense). It all sounds very calm and rational, until every single Libertarian argues that every single thing can be best handled by individuals or "the market". And frankly, push to shove, many Libertarians will, if pushed far enough, end up arguing that "the market" and "individualism" are SO SACRED in themselves that even IF they grant that individuals or "the market" can't do something as well as government, we shouldn't have government do them anyway.

Libertarians are, to me, about as interesting as people I know who get angry if you describe them as Republicans, insisting on their "independence", and yet when I press them on their voting behavior, they literally cannot name the last Democrat they ever voted for.

Ken Muldrew

"I thought you meant all that idealistic talk about how limiting, even eliminating government involvement in our lives will naturally lead to a return to first principles"

It's worth noting that always and everywhere, said "first principles" refers to the existence of a protection racket. Unless you have a government that is bigger and stronger than all non-governmental organizations, you will be paying taxes to a private business shakedown rather than the government. And unless you are the local strongman, you *will* be paying taxes, so the real question is deciding where you get the most value for your dollar.

Eric Sieferman

In my libertarian days, I found distinct types of people at meetings:
1. Republicans who wanted to smoke dope.
2. Barely disguised racists who complained constantly about government help to black moochers and lazy Mexicans.
3. Gun loon survivalists and end-timers.
4. Randist ideologues.
5. Gold bugs.
6. A small number of genuinely thoughtful folks who, for instance, were as opposed to government support of business as they were to the public social safety net. These folks have never been important in libertarian politics, but they're fun and sometimes educational.

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