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Earl Bockenfeld

Wow. The tea-baggin gopper hate fest goes circular. Lets be honest, all religions are cults. Religion is the main basis for war and strife between cultures and it's based on stories! Really? That many people refuse to see fact over faith!

What bothers me about the LDS church -- not, I should point out, individual Mormons, who are as good or as bad as anyone else in my experience -- is not the special underwear or the secret temple rituals or the private planets or the posthumous baptisms (not that the last isn't annoying). Rather, it's the fact that the church asks its followers to believe in a version of the history of the Western Hemisphere for which there is not only no evidence, but which is provably false.

Janelle Dvorak



Do these clowns ever even listen to themselves?

Never mind, I know the answer.

minstrel hussain boy

there is absolutely no disputing the mormon's myth foundation as myth, provable lies.

my experience with them is the same as many other native americans in the southwest. good, balanced with some bad, but mostly good. mostly very good. in 1958 the times on our rez were very hard. starvation/death hard to be exact. a mormon bishop organized his ward into loading up trucks with food, blankets, fuel, and warm clothing from his bishop's stores and they spent the rest of the winte driving 300 miles of bad road to keep us alive.

my high school education was made possible by the mormons. they have in place a program called "indian placement" where kids from the rez are given an opportunity to attend accredited high schools, staying with mormon host families like exchange students (and the difference between life on my rez and life in a city like mesa or tempe was a great big thing). yes, i had to attend mormon seminary courses each morning and be spoonfed the mormon's pretty whacked out version of life and events. the worst trouble i got into with them was when i asked the seminary teacher "how's come it is that whenever white people try to figure out how the indians got here we are always the ones in the story that are lost?" (their foundation myth is that indians are descended from the "lost" tribes of israel. the brothers laman and nephi (more trouble if you call him nehi in class) came to america, with no mention of how or why, and set up shop. the children of nephi were good, pastoral people who built things and were all around wonderful, while the children of laman, became idolators, warlike and thieving shitheels (three guesses which camp the apache belonged too, go ahead)).

there is an excellent biography of joseph smith by fawn brodie "no man knows my history." in that you get the making of the man, the mythology, and the church. it is a warts and all biography. very fair. i recommend it.

there is a lot to be disturbed about by the ascendancy of mormons into places of power. their own structure specifys that priesthood holders (every mormon male) are given, and expected to receive prophecy directly from god. that's dangerous in an of itseslf. the utopian visions of mormon heaven on earth revolve around a theocracy where the church structure, the nation, and its government are the same entity. that's their ultimate goal. to achieve it they are directed by god to do what ever needs to be done.

still, despite all that. i owe them a debt which can never be repaid. it's strange that a church entity that is so prone to corruption and all manner of depravity can be made up of so many good and decent people who are focused on living good and decent lives with their families and neighbors.

it sort of proves the atheist's axiom of "absent the presence of religion the good are free to be good and the bad are free to be bad. introduce religion into that equation and you begin to find essentially good people doing very bad things in the name of god."

mitt's mormonism might be the single most decent thing about him.

Earl Bockenfeld

Some may have taken my earlier comment as a attack on Mormonism, but the cultist Texas pastor rates even more of my contempt. The Texas megachurch pastor who made waves at this year's Voter Values Summit is still not backing down.

"I am not a Jeremiah Wright on the fringe, making fanatical statements," he said in defense of his unChristian attack on Mitt Romney.

No, you are not. Jeremiah Wright's words were chopped into soundbites and taken out of context and demonized in an attempt to hurt Obama. You on the other hand are offensive even with your clarificat­ion.

No, Jeffers is not Jeremiah Wright, of course not... he is even much worse.


"The policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder."

- Richard J. Daley, 1968

It's possible - even likely - that what the Baptist pastor meant was that being a good, moral person isn't enough if one's theology isn't right. That's not an uncommon sentiment among theocons of various stripes.

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