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Ouch. I kinda agree with him.

Except that he needs to visit California. It's not all hope and peaches and cream here.

It's just like anywhere else in America, with sometimes better weather and more variedly-hued people. And a liberalism of the half-assed variety that frequently disappoints (Prop 8, anyone?).

Mike Schilling

In 2000, California proposition 22 (to ban same-sex marriage) won 61-38. In 2008, California proposition 8 (to end same-sex marriage won 52-48. 22 won because an overwhelming number of voters would never accept same-sex marriage. 8 won because the "No on 8" folks ran a half-assed campaign and all that money came in from out of state. Yes, I'm angry that it won, but look how much progress we've made in just eight years.

Likewise, I know that Obama isn't going to save the world, but compare him to Bush or McCain, and tell me that an intelligent, thoughtful man who understands the problems we're facing isn't a vast improvement on both of them. (Yes, Lance, Hillary would have been a vast improvement too.)


Is Bageant auditioning for Andy Rooney's 60 Minutes job?

There's being a realist and there's being a Cassandra. It looks like Bageant has decided on the second role, a full month before Obama has even taken office.

Sucking lemons is all well and good, but does he have to scrape the zest off (culinary pun!) for the rest of us?


Mike, it isn't just that Obama isn't going to "save the world." The BEST he can hope to do is not actively make things worse. We're so beyond the tipping point up shit creek that even not making things worse isn't helpful - they're going to get worse all on their own.

That's not Obama's fault, even if he wasn't a centrist small-r Republican in disguise (as is Hillary Clinton and most Dems). That's just how things are right now.

Yes, I'm a pessimist. But things ARE really bad.

Prop 8, by the way, just sprung to mind as a quick example. California is not that hippie-dippie happy librul flowers-in-your-hair place that Joe seemed to be implying, was my point. Not even San Francisco is that place - it's full of Republican investment bankers, Republican lawyers and corporatist stooges (of which I happen to be one, God help me). All the "artists" moved to Oakland around the time of the dotcom boom and have since moved out of state to live with their mothers in Ohio.


To take your point, Mike - is Obama better than any Republican? Sure. But it's such a low bar that I'm sure you'll forgive me if I'm not ecstatic.

For the record, I voted for Obama, wanted him to win, and for almost a week after Nov. 4, I was VERY thrilled that he won. Then reality set in.

On good days, I compare the United States to Pakistan and I can see hardly any flaws in my adopted country. You compare Obama to McCain and yes, he comes out smelling like roses. Comparisons can be deceptive.


"My lack of enthusiasm over his victory creates awkwardness among my peers and heightens my feeling of political alienation. After the election I had the queasy sense of being on the outside edge of a mass delusion."

Yep. That's me, too. And note to Joe, I'm in California.

Read Joe's "Deer Hunting with Jesus" several weeks ago. I highly recommend it.

Sherry Chandler

Cassandra was right.

Just sayin'

I voted for Obama and am sometimes mildly hopeful that he can make things better and sometimes feel as though his name should be Quisling. I don't think I'm alone.

Sometimes I read Joe Bageant. Sometimes I think he makes good points and sometimes I get bored and quit long before I get to the end of a rant. I most always think he probably shouldn't be dismissed.

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