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  • Lance Mannion
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« Kilgore Trout's complaint against realism | Main | Unlikely »


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Adam Rakunas

Is it infantile to say that anyone who refers to himself in the third person is a wank?


The Moose is not sui generis, unfortunately. To be different, I'm not going to compare him to Chamberlain post-Munich (an appeaser, in other words). Nope, I'll compare him to Daladier instead. Principles, schminciples, says the Moose. Democrats should be pragmatic like me, he says. Well, Moose, I don't think much of your views. You're in the group which causes Americans to wonder just what it is the Democrats stand for. I'll pass.

Man, I shoulda had a cuppa coffee before I read your post, Lance; it might have calmed me down some.


SLAM DUNK! In your face, Moose!

Screw the Moose and the DLC and the rest of the losers who believe they are the "true" republicans. If so, take back your party from the fundies and the war-nuts and the racist new-Klan Minutemen and the Gay-bashers. Leave the Democrats alone.

harry near indy

that was one elegant put down of the bull moose and his bull s--, lance. other bloggers usually aren't that subtle.

Tom Hilton

Nicely done. Wittman's tunnel vision is so pronounced that he can shape any set of historical facts into an argument for 'New Democrat Centrism'.

That said, I think there is plenty of reason (entirely independent of Wittman) to be extremely wary of nominating anyone who is (or more to the point, is perceived as) too liberal. To use an extreme example, if we nominated Dennis Kucinich he'd get 40% tops.

That's not an argument for some DLC-type candidate; it's an argument for someone (maybe Edwards, maybe Clark, maybe who knows) who knows how to make liberal ideas appeal to the middle.

Michael Bains

Bush ..., it must always be remembered, damn near lost an election he should have won in a walk. Add to that the possibility that the second Bush stole two elections ...

The second by {cough} Virtue of the first.

Otherwise, I'd say he has none.


Has anyone asked the "The Moose" (speaking of infantile...) to re-run his post on how the RNC is responsible for Little Green Footballs, FreeRepublic, I'm sure there was one, because not to have looked at the Right Wing blogistanis while handwringing and whimpering over the places where progressives go to blow off little steam would be less than wholly honest. And I'm sure one who styles himself the reincarnation of Theodore Roosevelt (there's that "i" word again) would never be so lazily dishonest. And of course, conservative commentantors from Bill Kristol to Mickey Kaus regularly denounce the histrionics of Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, etc. etc. etc....
I've been asking one question since Chait posted his column that set bobbleheads all over the MSM nodding with sage and rueful agreement: How is it that opposing this war--and now warrantless spying on "tens of millions" of American citizens--is considered "radical" or "fanatical"? Still haven't gotten an answer.

Michael Bains

Howdy Tom

I've voted for Kucinich and've been a fan of his since he, admittedly awkwardly, stood down the Old Money in Cleveland. I would never want him 2 away from the Presidency, much less in it, though.

Feingold I'm thinkin' I could handle, but he scares me for the some of the same reasons does Dennis. Edwards as Al Gore's running mate, with an upfront declaration by Gore that he's seeking One Term, would bring in the radical ruralists.

It's that sweet spot of Economic Regulation that kept Clinton so high in the esteem of the Americans, and some Diplomacy thrown in BEFORE killing people to prevent more killing was introduced that impressed the rest of the world.

I think Gore still has enough of that character (sans philanderin') that he could Stump his way back into office w/ a 1 term agenda: Cleaning up the bureaucracy, campaign finance reform (Freedom of Speech?? Their yellin' FIRE in every theatre in the country to get elected!) and some kind of national referendum on what kind of Tax Structure we need going into the next 50 to 70 years.

Then the running mate has just got to be on board with those Points of Light, so t' speak. We can't go backwards. All the caves are spelunked, and we're still planetbound.

Somebody's gotta step up.

Thanks for helpin' me shake off this political malaise I've been feeling lately, Lance. Greenwald's post was really worth the read as well.

Kevin Wolf

This is my brand of common sense, Lance.

But I still hold almost no hope for the Dems. They just don't seem to get it.


Who is Wittman calling names? "Infantile disorder" proves he's cribbing from Lenin, for God's sake. There's some nice source material.

I get why a Dem organization pays him. He's a playa and, more importantly, he's somebody's friend and needs the gig. In politics, those who cannot do "consult." But why anyone on the Dem side listens to a former Christian Coalition flak/McCain cultist baffles me. On the Saturday night before game day, does the coach of the Bears call up the coach of the Packers and say, "Vince, how do we beat that devastating safety blitz you have?" (Vince's reply would undoubtedly be: "Put Lieberman at quarterback!")

Really, could anyone short of Jesus have defeated Ike in '52? Of course not. Is there a reason not to include the thesis-busting FDR? Of course not, except that he busts the thesis. And so on. Nice smackdown, Lance, and I enjoyed reading it. But you are too mighty for this antlered stooge. If you feel the need to read Wittman again, please, call. Let's take it one day at a time. We can get thru this together.


So, if anyone who is actually in the political mainstream (i.e., progressive/liberal) actually comes close to being nominated, and no one shoots him, then we can count on people like the Bull Moose to join in the character assasination as usual and make sure that that person can't get into the White House. Sounds familiar.

Anne Laurie

So, looking at the election of 1988, say, we can ask and expect to answer the questions: Did the voters reject the Democratic nominee because he wasn't a centrist of the DLC stripe the Moose prefers? Or did they reject him because he was a bloodless android who was short and talked funny to boot and had, as some comedian said back then, a name that sounded like a car whose engine won't turn over?

See, this proves you're more of a natural optimist than I, Lance: You actually assume Bush the First won the election, honestly. To which my rebuttal would be: Lee Atwater. It's possible that Mr. Atwater decided to behave honorably for the first and last time in his political career, but believing that would require an optimism I simply can't muster. Since the 1988 election, I've always assumed that the Repugs were tinkering with the voting machines, and the only question in my mind is when we'll find out exactly how they managed it. Talking like this in 1988 made me a tinfoil-hat-wearer, but the real difference between the elections in 1988 and 2000 -- or 2004 -- is that a much greater percentage of the 2004 American electorate expected nothing other than dishonesty from the Republican machinery. The primary goals for the Democratic party in all future elections must be to ensure fraud-proof winning margins while (by) keeping every possible form of vote theft and suppression under strict surveillance.

Kevin Hayden

To that brilliant reply, I'd add:

In the past 12 elections, 4 were won with less than 50% of the vote and only 3 were won with 52% or more: '64, '72, '84. Statistically speaking, such narrow victories in 9 of the 12 hardly call for major changes.

Also, the DLC winner he refers to never managed 50%.

And he wasn't the first DLC guy, Dukakis was, and that strategy didn't prove a winner for him.

Finally, it's long been a maxim in American politics that "Tis better to be informed than to enter a polling booth armed only with knowledge gained by conversations with a weed-munching moose."

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