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Tom Hilton
But apparently there are progressive bloggers who are too.
I saw some of this at TalkLeft yesterday--commenters saying it was 'arrogant' and, yes, bringing up the spectre of Nuremberg. Not a nice gesture of inclusiveness, but a symptom of megalomania. These are folks who, if Obama walked on water, would go around saying 'Obama can't swim!'

But I just have to keep telling myself they're a tiny, tiny minority outside the blogospheric hothouse.

Tom Hilton

Oh, and 'Invesco Field'? I didn't even realize it was a corporate name; I thought it was named after some Romanian guy.


Nobody really calls it Invesco field. The locals are still saying Mile High Stadium, as far as I know. Don't think the Obama campaign hasn't factored that in.


I really wish we could stop covering the blogospheric pissing match.

There are bloggers and commenters who supported her who are gloating, and there are bloggers and commenters who supported him who are still throwing righteous rage-junkie fits about her (I particularly enjoyed the well-known adrenaline enthusiast who promised never to let up because we must never let this [most evil of all evil campaigns totally ever] happen again and presumably rehearsing four-month-old outrages is going to accomplish that). I've seen a number of what I've always thought were reasonably rational people explain in all seriousness that his votes over the past few weeks were perfectly explained by the fact that he's taken on staff and advisors from her campaign and _they made him do it_ because _he clearly doesn't understand the implications_

Me, I agree with you. My view of him has always been shaped by his centrism, it's what I expected from him, and I'm a bit stunned that anyone who did their homework feels betrayed by it. I'm a little concerned about the nadery response of some of his former zealots, but I suspect they'll find some way to reconcile it.

I didn't get people who think their emotional engagement is a reason to lose sight of John freaking McCain chosing the Supreme Court the day she conceded, and I still don't get it now that the purists have joined the embittered veterans of the primary wars.

The thing to remember, though, is that those people, according to every indicator I can find, are vanishingly rare (which, I grant you, they make up for on both sides by being strident).

Still, it's left us with the unfortunate sight of her dead-enders and those of his supporters who are having far too much fun sniping at each other. News organizations who do not, to say the least, have a record of meaning us well are starting to cover it, and because they're covering it they're not having to cover the implosion of the McCain campaign and the coming Republican apocalypse.

Can we please starve it of oxygen? Griefers are ever with us, and they've never had such a magnificent run as they've had this past half year, but in the end, they're not about the candidates. They're about the grief. Six months from now they'll have moved on to squabbling about the semiotics of political incorrectness or the transformative ethics of the blowjob and the rest of us will be concentrating on the future of the world and we'll all be very satisfied.



Hey Lance - I dont understand this:

"...President Hillary Clinton would have started the clean up over here. Obama's going to start it over there."

Where is "over there", please?

and Julia - yours was the longer post I ever saw about why we shouldnt talk about something. ;-)

Kit Stolz

Not much difference between Clinton and Obama? Perhaps not in terms of policy (although Clinton never committed to getting troops out of Iraq that I can recall). But policy is only one of many skills a politician must master. Obama can inspire an entire generation of young people; Clinton can only inspire wonks. That's not a trivial distinction.


I have no doubt at all that Hillary Clinton would be making a move toward the center herself if she was the Democratic nominee. After all, that's what Democrats do - they betray their base constituencies, because they've always gotten away with it - at least with Democrats, if not with the general electorate.

But one thing that REALLY pisses me off about Obama is that he won the nomination, in good part, because he said he was supposed to be DIFFERENT from Hillary Clinton. And every other politician, EVER. I think that's why so many people feel betrayed. They're right to feel that way. Hope and change? Yeah, right. Right of center.

Mike Schilling

I thought the same about Invesco as Tom, and assumed it would be full of rhinoceroses.



If you, and the "rest of us", whomever that "us" refers to imagine they, will be peering "into the future of world...satisfied", then you are indeed, as clueless as the rest of the so called 'in office' political leadership, both parties, both wings of the parties, are.


Guilty, Judith, but I'm not so much opposed to discussing it as wishing we could define the terms of the conversation a little more rigorously. The polls seem to indicate that most of her supporters went over to him with no problem. There's been an endless series of articles about her fundraisers making him jump through hoops, but they all seem to rely on something one woman in California said a month ago and a lot of "sources close to the situation." That's pretty weak beer for the pre-convention Democrats-in-disarray narrative, particularly compared with what we got in the last two presidential elections.

So yeah, I'd prefer that any discussion of Democrats who want Obama to lose be real specific. Are we talking about No Quarter here? TalkLeft? People who show up to participate in the eternal flamewar at the BooMan Tribune? Bloggers? Commenters?

The narrative that's building says this is a big problem. It looks to me more like a small standard-issue blogwar, and I hate to give the participants (and teh guys writing the thumbsuckers at the WSJ) more fuel for their delusions of grandeur than they already have.

Susie from Philly

Personally, I'd like to hear more about the ethics of blowjobs. In fact, I think it should be a plank in the platform - "Dems for Blowjobs!" Who's not happy after a blowjob? It could bring world peace if we market it properly...


well Julia, it didnt read to me like you wanted to redefine anything - it read like you wanted to shut Lance up on his own blog.

Your second post is a contradiction - you say you dont want to arm a blogwar but you want Lance to name names. That sounds like the last 8 years. You dont work for the pentagon, do you?


Yes, Judith, that's it exactly. I only wish I wasn't a newcomer to progressive blogs so I could have covered my track better.


Susie, I simply cannot take you anywhere.



Julia and I go way back in the blogworld. I didn't feel like she was trying to shut me up. She's just wants me to be a braver blogger. But I'm yellow. I plead illness. I'm not up to any blogspats with bloggers I admire. When I wrote this post I was just sort of vaguely hoping that the folks I'm talking about would read it, recognize themselves, and vow to tone down their Obama's the Devil rhetoric. I'm kind of like one of those ineffectual ministers who sermonize against adultery while avoiding the eyes of the parishoners known to be cheating on their spouses.


Lance, I think you've been a lot braver than I have this cycle, and I really didn't mean to suggest that you wade in. I'm just concerned because there have been a lot of really poorly-sourced stories lately about Hillary fans who are out to get Obama, and while I know that's not who you were talking about, it worries me that the candidate is going to have that much more trouble getting his message out if he gets framed as being on the defensive.

I'm probably being all PTSD about this, but enough people seem to be buying into the narrative that it worries me.

That said, Judith is correct that I'm sorta concern trolling, so I'm sorry about that.


Just a quick point. I believe the technical name is actually "Invesco Field at Mile High Stadium." People in Denver were outraged at the thought of renaming their beloved Mile High so the compromise was reached that allowed the Broncos (or the city, I'm not sure what the actual deal is) to get the revenue for selling the naming rights. Since this isn't a Bronco game, it might actually be correct to just say the event is at Mile High Stadium.

John Casey


If you look at what he was saying in the runup to November 1932, FDR wasn't the first coming of FDR, to mangle a metaphor.

What it comes down to, is who do you think has the best shot of doing some of what needs to be done, while doing as little as possible of what shouldn't be done.

On that measure, Obama is the best candidate on offer, and arguably better than any we've had a chance to vote for since I've had the vote. And I voted in 1972.


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